Author Topic: Weight of LHS in BCC# boxes  (Read 1368 times)

Euanbrown

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Weight of LHS in BCC# boxes
« on: July 05, 2018, 02:44:11 PM »
Hi,
I know  there has been some discussion of the relative weights of  boxes.  But this is  total weight.  The main physics problem (moving the air efficiently against the weight of the box) pertains to the LHS or Bass end movement.  In a sense the weight of the treble end is irrelevant (as if properly strapped it does not move).   Anyone looked at relative weights of base  ends? Any idea about this? 

thanks

Euan

Andy

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Re: Weight of LHS in BCC# boxes
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2018, 06:51:28 PM »
Problem with BCC# is that most of us want more, more treble buttons, bigger stradella, more voices, more registers. This creeps up on folk. Doubt if many folk playing a 31/12 two voice Trichord decide they are so limited that they immediately need to jump to a 46/120 four voice Shand but on the bass side particularly the logic seems to go:
If you have a 12 stradella then its only a few more rods and buttons to have 24 with very little difference in weight
If you have a 24 stradella then its only a few more rods and buttons to have 48 with very little difference in weight
If you have a 48 stradella then its only a few more rods and buttons to have 60 with very little difference in weight
If you have a 60 stradella then its only a few more rods and buttons to have 72 with very little difference in weight
If you have a 72 stradella then its only a few more rods and buttons to have 96 with very little difference in weight
If you have a 96 stradella then its only a few more rods and buttons to have 120 with very little difference in weight

All the above are true but the end result is a bit heavy for many.
I play a Gaelic IVS 37/96, while it is not too heavy it does occur to me that the 72 bass on my son's Concerto II piano accordion feels a lot lighter and for me would be sufficient 99% of the time. I believe that a well designed 60 bass (12 x 5) stradella could be something of a sweet spot in the weight versus range compromise but reserve the right to change my mind on that one.

Euanbrown

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Re: Weight of LHS in BCC# boxes
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2018, 04:27:40 PM »
Ha! I know that progression Andy! Ive gone, 16 diatonic base, 48 Stradella, and now 80 Stradella!
 

Fishfeathersmacteeth

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Re: Weight of LHS in BCC# boxes
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2018, 10:20:17 AM »
...I'm at the 48 Stradella Bass stage....

..after playing the three row 48 Bass, the 2 Row 2 voice B/C fairly seems to play itself...sometimes if I've been playing a lot of B/C I need a few minutes to adjust myself to not throwing the left hand about as much when I pick up the "big" box... :-)

..occasionally I practise the 3 row with the bottom bellows strap still clipped in.  I tell myself I'm practising my bellows control...  ;D

...but aye, it would seem logical that the lighter the Bass end the easier to control..or it all ends up being a bit like a musical Bullworker..(anyone else old enough to remember them..?  ;D
...all the way from Luthermuir..

Euanbrown

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Re: Weight of LHS in BCC# boxes
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2018, 03:48:51 PM »
Yes I remember the bullworker!   In fact I also remember a fellow during the first Edinburgh Folk Festival  (who shall remain nameless),  who had clearly worked-out with one,   ripping a perfectly good D/G melodeon apart in his enthusiasm! 

I was just thinking that the full weight of boxes is not as important as the weight of the bass end.

Fishfeathersmacteeth

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Re: Weight of LHS in BCC# boxes
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2018, 10:31:34 AM »
...yeah, the heavier the Bass end, the more important to know one's way about the keyboard.  People like me who essentially play it as a 2 row instrument with just the odd stab at the third row to get a note in the right direction really appreciate light Bass ends...  ;D
...all the way from Luthermuir..

george garside

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Re: Weight of LHS in BCC# boxes
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2018, 10:16:04 PM »
The weight of the bass end  on larger BCCsharp boxes should not be considered as being detrimental as other factors apply.  The smaller the bass end the smaller the capacity of the bellows  and this means that for a given amount of air pumped the bellows need to move further ( assuming same number of reeds (voices) are being used.  So their is much more toing and froing with an 8 bass 2 row or 48 bass 3 row than there is with 80/96/105/117/120 basses and this reduced movement in many ways compensates for the increase in weight

Also while many including myself advocate initial learning using only 2 rows (on a 3 row box) there is a great deal to be said for getting the hang of using 3 rows when it suits both the player and the tune  bearing in mind that some tunes work very well MAINLY using 2 rows  with just the occasional reversal being used.  However the reasons for getting the hang of using 3 rows as and when it works better are greatly reduced bellwos travel most of the time  = less physical effort and better control of dynamics  and in many cases easier fingering.

Once able to play on 2 rows to a reasonable standard during which time the  B and E alternatives will become familiar introduce the F# and C# pn the inside row.


george

Fishfeathersmacteeth

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Re: Weight of LHS in BCC# boxes
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2018, 01:34:25 PM »
...sound advice as ever George...thank you..!!
...all the way from Luthermuir..

george garside

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Re: Weight of LHS in BCC# boxes
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2018, 09:54:57 AM »
a good well known tune to practice keeping the bellows 'tight' is Oh Susanna played in A at moderate 'dance' speed' using just the outside 2 rows. Maximising the two E's and 2 B's should with  a bit of practice  enable it to be played using 4 voice treble and bass  with no more than 3 or 4 inches of bellows movement.( on a hohner gaelic 96 bass)

You can then do exactly the same thing on the inside 2 rows to get it in Bb

george


george